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| | A player hits his second shot towards the green, unfortunatlely he mishits it into the rough just off the fairway. He declares he is going to hit a provisional just in case. Other players in his group think the ball is ok and may be found. Original player then creams the provisional ball to within feet of the pin, then declares the first ball lost. Is this within the rules? is it in the spirit of the game? |
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| Hi golfnut,
There is nothing in the Rules that says a player must search for a ball.
But you cannot 'declare a ball lost', you just don't bother looking for it.
More often than not if a players says 'I'm not even going to look for that', his FCs will not bother either.
However, if your Fellow Competitors or Opponent(s) find the original ball the player MUST abandon the provisional ball, R27-2. c, and continue with the original.
If a ball is found, the player MUST go and identify it, if he refuses his FCs or Opponent(s) can refer it to the Committee (R34-3) who could DQ the player (R33-7).
Go to this web address, it's very good, the USGA Rules are identical to the R&A.
You will find lots of Decisions to help you with the R27 Rule.
www.usga.org/playing/rules/books/rules
ATB,
SH. |
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| 27-2a/3 Play of Provisional Ball in Absence of Reasonable Possibility Original Ball Is Lost or Out of Bounds
Q. In the absence of reasonable possibility that a ball is lost outside a water hazard or is out of bounds, may the player play a provisional ball?
A. No. If a player plays a ball under such circumstances, the ball is not a provisional ball but the ball in play — see Decision 27-2a/2.
In the circumstances you describe, where your ball has only just missed the fairway, is there really a reasonable possibility that your ball is lost outside a water hazard or is out of bounds? Unless you are talking 3-feet high rough or similar, I'd say no, and that as soon as you hit that "provisional ball", it became the ball in play and your first ball was now "lost." The fact that you then "declared" your first ball lost is meaningless. As Shawe rightly said, you can't. It became lost as soon as you hit the 2nd ball. In that case, you should have added a penalty stroke for the abandonment of the first ball.
The reason for the requirement of the "reasonable possibility" condition is to stop players from using the opportunity to declare a bogus provisional and use it as "practice."
Chocks away!
Biggles |
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| Hi CB,
I'd like to turn your rationale the other way around.
Unless the onlookers can be virtually certain that the OB will be found, then it is always wise to announce and play a Provisional Ball.
A PB is a time saving device, and slow play is a much greater problem than a tiny amount of players who might be blagging one extra practice stroke.
Cheers,
SH.
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| Hi Shawe
But that's not what the Rules and the related Decision allow. The rules and the decision don't talk about playing partners having to be virtually certain that the ball can or will be found, they talk about a reasonable possibility of the ball being lost outside...etc. You appear to me as well-clued up on the Rules, so you will appreciate, I am sure, the importance of the maxim that, in the Rules of Golf, every word means what it says.
So, in this instance, and with the proviso that we are not talking about knee-high rough just off the fairway, I'd hold to my interpretation that the player would not be justified in playing a provisional ball.
Of course, in a "friendly" game, as opposed to competition, I'd be inclined as an FC to turn a blind eye.
Chocks away!
Biggles |
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| | Hi, to all that replied, again i'm replying with quite a good knowledge of the rules. But in the original case that I quoted " the ball was hit just off the fairway into the rough" We where playing at Hillside(southport) in a very competetive group, and I suspect the player did not fancy the next shot as it would be a very steep hill above his feet( if he found his ball) which we thought was probably easily found.(yes I was in hot pursuit trying to beat him). But I have always understood you declare the ball lost before you hit the next ball, if you think you're in the sh*te? |
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| Hi golfnut,
I don't disagree at all with your sentiments about the Rules, the problem is, in this case, you are basing your notion of 'following the letter of the law' on ambiguous words.
How do you quantify 'reasonable possibility'.
If as you say 'every word means what is says' - those must mean it might be found or it might not be found. At what percentage of doubt would you recommend a provisional.
If a FC wants to play a provisional just in case, I would say 'good man'.
Cheers,
And thanks, it's nice to get into a conversation about golf.
SH.
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| Sorry, that last post was to the Cardinal, not golfnut.
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| Hi Shawe
Well, in the instance described, if his playing partners are of the opinion that there isn't a reasonable possibility of it being lost...etc., then I'd say that he wouldn't be justified in playing a provisional. Of course, in a "friendly" it is of little consequence and if I'd been one of the playing partners I certainly would not have kicked up a fuss. However, in a competition, if he had declared a provisional in the circumstances described, I suspect that he would've had a difficult time in front of the committee, particularly if the committee had the decisions book in front of them.
Chocks away!
Biggles |
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